(16 Jul 24 at 9:10am)-(Blue)- Wrote: 2 rounds vs 8
You're dumbing it down to a single stat. Of course it's gonna sound like a worse weapon if you remove every other factor from the equation. The 725 also has much better damage per shot, much better spread, a fast reload (Especially with Sleight of Hand) and much better range (Which gets ridiculous given the right attachments), the latter of which allows the 725 consistently 1-shot even armored players with the right setup. I have used the 725 myself and it's not a bad shotgun at all.
The 725 is really good with the right setup, as you mentioned, while the 680 is good right out of the box. This is a huge difference. Grids can afford to miss shots, but engineers cannot this is also a huge difference. If you get a brand new grid to fight a brand new engineer, the grid will almost always come out on top. I've seen this happen many times. There are times when the engineer will win, of course, but most of the time it is an experienced engineer with the optimal build. Additionally, the fact that the 725 has better damage, range, etc., won’t matter if they miss there shots compared to the grid with 8 tries.
You make a good point about the 680 being a weapon that doesn't strictly need attachments to be good, that's definitely a strong suit for it. However, while I agree that having 8 shots can be considered as '8 tries', the reality is that with how low the TTK is, a typical GRID that doesn't play very conservatively will at best get 2-3 shots (tries) before being gunned down due to the slow firerate of the 680, being pump action.
I personally think that the 725 is a much better weapon for 1v1 engagements or for hit and run tactics, but I will concede that the 680 has much better uptime and better potential for multiple kills without reloading.
That being said, I am personally not sure if the difference in effectiveness of both shotguns is enough to warrant a 2 cw difference. Maybe 1 would be more reasonable.
(16 Jul 24 at 9:10am)-(Blue)- Wrote: 2 rounds vs 8
You're dumbing it down to a single stat. Of course it's gonna sound like a worse weapon if you remove every other factor from the equation. The 725 also has much better damage per shot, much better spread, a fast reload (Especially with Sleight of Hand) and much better range (Which gets ridiculous given the right attachments), the latter of which allows the 725 consistently 1-shot even armored players with the right setup. I have used the 725 myself and it's not a bad shotgun at all.
The 725 is really good with the right setup, as you mentioned, while the 680 is good right out of the box. This is a huge difference. Grids can afford to miss shots, but engineers cannot this is also a huge difference. If you get a brand new grid to fight a brand new engineer, the grid will almost always come out on top. I've seen this happen many times. There are times when the engineer will win, of course, but most of the time it is an experienced engineer with the optimal build. Additionally, the fact that the 725 has better damage, range, etc., won’t matter if they miss there shots compared to the grid with 8 tries.
You make a good point about the 680 being a weapon that doesn't strictly need attachments to be good, that's definitely a strong suit for it. However, while I agree that having 8 shots can be considered as '8 tries', the reality is that with how low the TTK is, a typical GRID that doesn't play very conservatively will at best get 2-3 shots (tries) before being gunned down due to the slow firerate of the 680, being pump action.
I personally think that the 725 is a much better weapon for 1v1 engagements or for hit and run tactics, but I will concede that the 680 has much better uptime and better potential for multiple kills without reloading.
That being said, I am personally not sure if the difference in effectiveness of both shotguns is enough to warrant a 2 cw difference. Maybe 1 would be more reasonable.
You also bring up a good point, but in reality, you should never truly be in a 1v1 as a grid/engineer. You should be with your squad, or if you are guarding your FOB, you should be next to your turret at all times. This way, every solo battle turns into a 2v1. In this environment, the defending unit will almost always win, no matter what class you are. If you are a grid/engineer running around acting like a fighter class, then you will lose, especially if you are alone.
(16 Jul 24 at 9:10am)-(Blue)- Wrote: 2 rounds vs 8
You're dumbing it down to a single stat. Of course it's gonna sound like a worse weapon if you remove every other factor from the equation. The 725 also has much better damage per shot, much better spread, a fast reload (Especially with Sleight of Hand) and much better range (Which gets ridiculous given the right attachments), the latter of which allows the 725 consistently 1-shot even armored players with the right setup. I have used the 725 myself and it's not a bad shotgun at all.
The 725 is really good with the right setup, as you mentioned, while the 680 is good right out of the box. This is a huge difference. Grids can afford to miss shots, but engineers cannot this is also a huge difference. If you get a brand new grid to fight a brand new engineer, the grid will almost always come out on top. I've seen this happen many times. There are times when the engineer will win, of course, but most of the time it is an experienced engineer with the optimal build. Additionally, the fact that the 725 has better damage, range, etc., won’t matter if they miss there shots compared to the grid with 8 tries.
You make a good point about the 680 being a weapon that doesn't strictly need attachments to be good, that's definitely a strong suit for it. However, while I agree that having 8 shots can be considered as '8 tries', the reality is that with how low the TTK is, a typical GRID that doesn't play very conservatively will at best get 2-3 shots (tries) before being gunned down due to the slow firerate of the 680, being pump action.
I personally think that the 725 is a much better weapon for 1v1 engagements or for hit and run tactics, but I will concede that the 680 has much better uptime and better potential for multiple kills without reloading.
That being said, I am personally not sure if the difference in effectiveness of both shotguns is enough to warrant a 2 cw difference. Maybe 1 would be more reasonable.
You also bring up a good point, but in reality, you should never truly be in a 1v1 as a grid/engineer. You should be with your squad, or if you are guarding your FOB, you should be next to your turret at all times. This way, every solo battle turns into a 2v1. In this environment, the defending unit will almost always win, no matter what class you are. If you are a grid/engineer running around acting like a fighter class, then you will lose, especially if you are alone.
Yeah, come to think of it I am happy no one voted for the "+2 cw" option I had on the poll. I am starting to reconsider my suggestion, as I heavily underestimated how much of an impact the weapon choice really has on the effectiveness of GRID vs Engineer for their intended role. I am no longer gonna push for their carry weight to be equal, but instead aim for a +1 cw (Which would still leave a cw advantage for the Engineer) or no change at all. I'm fine with either outcome.
I am happy I was able to have a civil discussion with you about this topic though, really appreciate how polite you were.
You make a good point about the 680 being a weapon that doesn't strictly need attachments to be good, that's definitely a strong suit for it. However, while I agree that having 8 shots can be considered as '8 tries', the reality is that with how low the TTK is, a typical GRID that doesn't play very conservatively will at best get 2-3 shots (tries) before being gunned down due to the slow firerate of the 680, being pump action.
I personally think that the 725 is a much better weapon for 1v1 engagements or for hit and run tactics, but I will concede that the 680 has much better uptime and better potential for multiple kills without reloading.
That being said, I am personally not sure if the difference in effectiveness of both shotguns is enough to warrant a 2 cw difference. Maybe 1 would be more reasonable.
You also bring up a good point, but in reality, you should never truly be in a 1v1 as a grid/engineer. You should be with your squad, or if you are guarding your FOB, you should be next to your turret at all times. This way, every solo battle turns into a 2v1. In this environment, the defending unit will almost always win, no matter what class you are. If you are a grid/engineer running around acting like a fighter class, then you will lose, especially if you are alone.
Yeah, come to think of it I am happy no one voted for the "+2 cw" option I had on the poll. I am starting to reconsider my suggestion, as I heavily underestimated how much of an impact the weapon choice really has on the effectiveness of GRID vs Engineer for their intended role. I am no longer gonna push for their carry weight to be equal, but instead aim for a +1 cw (Which would still leave a cw advantage for the Engineer) or no change at all. I'm fine with either outcome.
I am happy I was able to have a civil discussion with you about this topic though, really appreciate how polite you were.