(18 Sep 22 at 4:03pm)AbsentPulse Wrote: I'm going to revisit this now with the EOW changes. Now that combine don't have a class with frags, and I don't think rebels have a class with smokes. You could give Union CO frags and RF CO smokes. Idk how RF COs feel about this I would love to hear opinions.

I think frags should be given to a more accessible class, maybe Riot as that would make sense to help them breach, and that smokes or molotovs would be more on point for Union.

Anyways, +1 from me.

I would like to postulate that the suggestion here does not benefit UNION/RF the class (Enlisted or NCO WLs)  but rather specifically benefits COs. While there isn't a problem with that, it kinda takes away from the suggestion that the idea here isn't to improve the experience of the units.

As a similar note, I think UNION/RF CO is one of the best whitelists on the server, as it has the 1/2 Respawn Time in combination with higher stats than base UNION/RF NCO. I don't think grenades are needed for any kind of balance reasons, though in terms of making the class more enjoyable to play it might be worthwhile, but that still brings back the issue that the CO class is just an extension of the NCO class, and making a change only for COs doesn't add any uniqueness to the vast majority of players.

However, if the suggestion was instead "Remove 1/2 respawn time, add Frag to UNION OR RF NCO & CO whitelists" I'd +1 that. It'd add more variety for the class and between the factions.

You see aithead, I hard disagree with you on this one. As someone who has alot of experience with both the nco and co whitelist when the CO whitelist had frags it is not as big as you seem to claim it is. The entire reason they had frags before was to promote more team play for the class. The class had both the respawn timer and the grenades at the same time. You seem to think this is a really massive change when in reality it used to be a thing and it would not make a huge difference, just boost our team play and give people just that more incentive to reach CO you also claim better stats but do note we only have 20 more hp than the nco counterpart "better stats" is a single slight buff (i did forget 1 extra carry weight, my mistake). Also like I said before I am willing to compromise with a smoke grenade or other util. However i presented the idea that we could each have our own to make us that tiny bit more diverse. But I would still like to hear how an rf co feels about that

(23 Sep 22 at 1:25am)AbsentPulse Wrote: You see aithead, I hard disagree with you on this one. As someone who has alot of experience with both the nco and co whitelist when the CO whitelist had frags it is not as big as you seem to claim it is. The entire reason they had frags before was to promote more team play for the class. The class had both the respawn timer and the grenades at the same time. You seem to think this is a really massive change when in reality it used to be a thing and it would not make a huge difference, just boost our team play and give people just that more incentive to reach CO you also claim better stats but do note we only have 20 more hp than the nco counterpart "better stats" is a single slight buff (i did forget 1 extra carry weight, my mistake). Also like I said before I am willing to compromise with a smoke grenade or other util. However i presented the idea that we could each have our own to make us that tiny bit more diverse. But I would still like to hear how an rf co feels about that

I never claimed it was a massive change lol. You're blowing what I said out of proportion.

I'm saying you're asking for a change that benefits specifically and ONLY RF/UNION COs. I then mentioned that I don't think it's needed as UNION/RF CO is a better version of the NCO whitelist, making it one of the best classes on the server as a derivative to the normal NCO class. You can't argue that the CO whitelist is NOT better than the NCO whitelist lol. Having a Frag doesn't necessarily promote team-play, a smoke grenade would be better suited for that purpose but your go-to is still the Frag which kinda indicates that your purpose is just wanting something extra and not some noble ideal emphasizing teamwork. (Not like that's a bad thing, I just don't like misrepresented arguments)

If you want to talk about the Frag getting removed, you also didn't get any stat changes when the Frag was added, making that point rather moot.

Separately, I also suggested a different idea, which you can read whenever it suits your fancy.

Frags are worthless, smokes are better for aiding pushes.

I am not an active Union CO and have not had experience playing as one, nor do I play any Rebel characters, but I am an opinionated internet funny man. Only a few classes seem to have any form of grenades these days, and fewer yet have frag grenades (to the point that I'm pretty sure it's just HECU with frags now that EOWR's were removed?). Both grenades have a passable utility on offensive pushes, as good use of smokes lets you get dangerously close to the enemy, support the advance of vehicles, or escape a firefight. A good use of frags can flush an enemy out of defensive positions or confuse and pressure them to create openings, and since frags deal explosive damage they do have a more noteworthy utility that comes into play when dealing with certain perk combinations that are otherwise completely invulnerable without a SHIELD's C4 or a BALLISTA/GRID missile launcher or certain perk combinations that deal explosive damage.

SWORD already has smoke grenades and uses them to great effect, so I feel that it might be worth suggesting a test-merge (~3 days?) of the return of frag grenades to Union COs (and/or another Combine class, in lieu of giving a grenade type to either CO) while giving their RF counterpart smoke grenades to see how it affects things?

Remove your faster respawn timer and get grenades, seems like a fair trade

(23 Sep 22 at 4:51am)Bel1ve. Wrote: Remove your faster respawn timer and get grenades, seems like a fair trade

HELLLLL NO

But yeah, grenades for NCO too this time, gives the teamwork based classes something to work with. Frags could be cool, smokes would be AWESOME better than frags tbh

Grenades for NCO+ would be nice but UNION NCO/CO is already considered one of (if not) the best (public) class in the game

Smoke grenades would be out the question as combine already have a class that has them. Also you say remove the respawn time and grenades will be fair but you forget, this is a request for MPF UNION COs but also for RF COs too.

+1, will add a massive dynamic and make for a lot of strategic plays for the classes. Plus adds more appeal