MRDM enforcement is Fucked.


[DEFN] Aithead  Head Gamemaster VIP 20 Feb 22 at 7:32pm
#21
You actions weren't a missclick, you did say you intended to kill the first person during the debrief.
Kenny McCormick  VIP 20 Feb 22 at 7:36pm Edited
#22
So your ideas for future enforcement are to essentially make Mass RDM bans on a case-by-case?
First off, RDM is clarified pretty well, that being the intentional and careless killing of a teammate or civilian, with Mass RDM being the same but on a greater amount. There isn't really a need to clarify further.
Secondly, staff not acting on cases that aren't reported but very well happening is the definition of complacency. Staff are supposed to uphold the rules of the server whether someone reports it or not, that's how we keep CvR from devolving into 2b2t.
Additionally, Mass RDM to the extent that you've done it in isn't an accident, it's recklessness, there's a difference. Why should you only be warned for killing the ENTIRE DB room attendees, whether intentional or not? Accidents happen, yes, but these accidents come with context behind them that aren't "huhuhuh shoot me in the face"
Lastly, the ban time is there so that things like this are punished with deterrence in mind, at least that's how I see it. Should someone see someone else getting banned for a month and a half for "CCP-ing" a tryout, they'll be less likely to do the same and save themselves catching a bad-rep.
Much like what Sentinel said, this isn't a staff issue, and I don't see it as such either.

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Sevin  Member 20 Feb 22 at 7:37pm Edited
#23
(20 Feb 22 at 7:32pm)[DEFN] Aithead Wrote: You actions weren't a missclick, you did say you intended to kill the first person during the debrief.

My mistake was forgetting what perks I has equipped, and I was banned for 6 weeks. (and it wasn't during a DB)

Besides, I don't mater here. The specifics of my actions don't mean anything in regards to the overall problem.
gammaghostneo  Member 20 Feb 22 at 7:54pm
#24
(20 Feb 22 at 7:36pm)Kenny McCormick Wrote: Lastly, the ban time is there so that things like this are punished with deterrence in mind, at least that's how I see it. Should someone see someone else getting banned for a month and a half for "CCP-ing" a tryout, they'll be less likely to do the same and save themselves catching a bad-rep.
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...Yeah you know what? Fair argument. I retract my statement then.
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Sevin  Member 20 Feb 22 at 8:02pm
#25
(20 Feb 22 at 7:31pm)gammaghostneo Wrote: [...] just give the staff the ability to decide what the punishment [...]

We had something like that before. Staff were given some discretion when it came to enforcing punishments. This resulted with annoying inconsistency and, thus the leniency was revoked. If they could decide punishment, things would be even worse; not to forget all the cries of corruption there would be.
Bel1ve.  VIP 20 Feb 22 at 9:05pm Edited
#26
(20 Feb 22 at 7:31pm)gammaghostneo Wrote: The problem that needs to be addressed is not that MRDM is a rule break, not that staff are doing their jobs, not that friendly fire is a thing, and not that the rules are the way they are. No, it is simply the severity of the punishment. The fact is I'm not asking for a slap on the wrist but I certainly don't think it's fair to base your punishment system on the American justice system(joke). I'm not arguing that rules are bad and don't need to be a thing. I'm arguing that THE rules towards appropriate punishment currently laid before us need to be changed.
Multiple time offenders? Give em 6 weeks or more to get em to knock it off, it's not funny or cool. But an accident or even a first time? Is 6 weeks really fair? That's 36 days, a full month! And for what? A misfire? A misunderstanding of what needed to be done? These could of been avoided, yes. But they weren't and so the hammer needed to come down. But must it come down so hard?

Look, all I'm saying is, in the best interest of the players, the staff, and CVR as a whole, just give the staff the ability to decide what the punishment is when it comes to these things or have a slightly less strict punishment system. I'm not defending any of these cases that have been presented before us, what's done is done. You don't just accidently fire your gun and expect to get away with it. If 6 weeks isn't the norm and instead is what one or two people chose, then forgive my ramblings.

That is how you create biased sits, seems they are cracking down on it now however. Wonder what took them this long.

High ranking co are able to confirm if they have the balls, cause they are the ones who benefited the most of it.
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mint julep  VIP 20 Feb 22 at 10:51pm
#27
Hello.

I will start my dissection of your argument with an apology as I feel I only skimmed over it rather than fully reading it. I will however not apologize for being able to quickly detect that you have a minimal understanding of what you are discussing or attempting to discuss. I am going to share a little secret that you should heed. The rules contain a lovingly and carefully crafted dose of ambiguity for the sake of ease when justifying removing someone unsavory from the server. This can be made abundantly clear by the fact that your "loosely defined" definition of MRDM is made completely clear to staff members in their provided materials.

You may be wondering, "Why would our dear DEFN staff team keep us in the dark on what could get us banned for SIX WEEKS!!! Confusedoyjak:." To that I ask you, what would our dear DEFN playerbase be doing trying to find the line between a few days ban and a several weeks ban.

MRDM is an incredibly disruptive behavior that can be easily avoided, and in any case where someone might try to argue that they just BARELY did only a TEENCY WEENCY bit of annoying ass fuckery it is simply far easier to grab their steamid and type out a lovely ULX command, whisking them away to a six week vacation in belize.

With this new enlightening revelation fresh in your head I'd also like to point out that staff members on CvR, especially competent ones and high ranking ones, are given EXTREME levels of freedom in regards to how they handle sits and how they punish rule breaking on the server- something else you were completely incorrect about. I have been joyously a member of the DEFN Personnel Department for a decent spell and I can speak with 100% assurance whoever led you to believe that DEFN staff are all required to follow a strict set of guidelines are either playing you the fool or a fucking retard themselves.

While I am here I would also like to note to you that all instances of recent MRDM you pointed out all shared similar qualities. Not only were none of these instances funny, but at no point were any of these actions condoned by the faction's COs at the time (to my knowledge), especially not by ME at my OWN TRYOUT where I ACCORDING TO YOU, ordered someone to CCP my tryout. Fuck China, Fuck Shogun, Fuck you, (Respectfully).

I believe I can speak for both faction's high command, management, and the entirety of the staff team when I say that MRDM is not only a stale joke which has lost much of its punchline, especially in the hands of many members of this community, but it is not something that can be so easily chalked up to as a mistake. We know mistakes. We've been around the block.

Thank you for making your post and I hope I have cleared up some EVIDENT confusion on this matter.

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Sevin  Member 21 Feb 22 at 7:15pm Edited
#28
(20 Feb 22 at 10:51pm)mint julep Wrote: With this new enlightening revelation fresh in your head I'd also like to point out that staff members on CvR, especially competent ones and high ranking ones, are given EXTREME levels of freedom in regards to how they handle sits and how they punish rule breaking on the server- something else you were completely incorrect about. I have been joyously a member of the DEFN Personnel Department for a decent spell and I can speak with 100% assurance whoever led you to believe that DEFN staff are all required to follow a strict set of guidelines are either playing you the fool or a fucking retard themselves.

Well... shit

(20 Feb 22 at 10:51pm)mint julep Wrote: While I am here I would also like to note to you that all instances of recent MRDM you pointed out all shared similar qualities. Not only were none of these instances funny, but at no point were any of these actions condoned by the faction's COs at the time (to my knowledge), especially not by ME at my OWN TRYOUT where I ACCORDING TO YOU, ordered someone to CCP my tryout. Fuck China, Fuck Shogun, Fuck you, (Respectfully).

Not me; well, I paraphrased. Apparently, you said, "'clear a peaceful protest' in the most ominous way possible." I'm going off his ban appeal because it's literally all I have. I took it at face value because, well frankly it's on brand for hecu.

Regardless, something is still fucked. There's been a hot streak of MRDM bans for really stupid reasons, that's undeniable, and I doubt it's stopping anytime soon. It's clear that the problem doesn't just reside within one element. 

(PS: The rules ARE outdated. ...At least the ones for Capture and Prisoner Rules. They haven't been touched since pre terminals. pls update)
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