I've amalgamated this from a different post, which broached into this very same topic - some of which is relatively outdated but, the gist is still there.
"I think this highlights a disparity at the given moment in the interaction between highly specialized classes and pure generalists with high carryweight: for example, trying to unironically play SWORD before the most recent shotgun damage change was extraordinarily punishing and even ambushing the foe from behind or playing passively and letting a UNION/RF push into your shotgun did not guarantee even a trade - whereas, UNION/RF may well hold W into these situations where they have absolutely zero right in being successful and succeed nonetheless. Let's also say, they aren't successful and they die - whaddya know, they're alive again before some classes can even reload, while I get to wait ten seconds to ineffectually, impotently stand still with my automatic shotgun (because moving even while ADS'd butchers your spread) and get a quick burst to the head and back to the map screen.
It raises the question: why bother?
This is an objective focused gamemode, and being able to out muscle the other side by frequency of spawns and effectiveness at every range dulls much of the appeal of playing a close-quarters class due to the fact that unless you're equipping no armour and an inventory weapon: you cannot defend yourself past fifteen meters, you take twice as long to spawn. The benefit? You get seven carry weight, a shotgun that barely eeks out an advantage in close-quarters and a throwable to band aid the matter of fact you are harmless past the aforementioned range.
I see more and more people disenfranchised with that state of affairs opting to play anything else; or, much more noticeably due to frequency: a vastly superior whitelist with the ability to be lethal at all ranges, have two separate health pools (one of which does not kill the user when it reaches zero) and have a utility to force people (or snipers) to move or eat a grenade. And to be fair, why wouldn't you?
There's no sense in obliterating the first whitelist for being too flexible, or AR's being too prevalent; however, the matter of fact is that other classes need to be brought up to a competitive standard in comparison otherwise they'll just be put into a dustbin and forgotten wholesale. How is a CO going to convince a new player to join their division when it very well could be a complete downgrade from the very first class they were given?"
I agree.
I also disagree with the fact that the default classes should be this powerful, i remeber yesterday playing as RF, i managed to sweep and take a fortified point all alone, while 3 people guarded it (specifically a GRID a SWORD and a CROSS).
I had no damage perks, just a full set of armor and my AK (with the LMG conversion which means less ADS speed).
The question rises naturally: why would i need to craft any other gun at all, when, with the AK: i don't need to craft it in the first place, i don't need to repair it, i don't need to recraft it, it's already one of the most viable ARs somebody can craft at a piss cheap price and all i need to inspire to is the highest craftable armor set which became even more affordable?
The answer would be to "try new stuff", but that would fall to the natural human need for new content and boredom, which everyone and every class has and honestly just dismisses the problem effortlessly.
While yes the main purpose of these classes is to let new players try out new stuff, but at the same time new players don't really have enough money, levels or materials to unlock them, the other way more important purpose is to guide the player in choosing a class that fits his playstyle, by making the course for meeting the requirements to join such class less of a headache, but certainly not in this shameless way, analogously, it gives older players a free ticket for what i call a sandbox class, especially now that UNION/RF doesn't take a character slot.
Almost every class lack a certain range or role that they can fulfill by crafting different guns on paper, UNION and RF (one has an AR that can turn into an LMG and the other can even turn into a DMR) do not require anything but survivability.
I will cit kratek in here: "How is a CO going to convince a new player to join their division when it very well could be a complete downgrade from the very first class they were give?" one could answer with the same old "it's the CO's fault" daisy run around crap, and ignoring the saturated and stagnant situation UNION and RF are in (and i guess partisan an legion too but that's sorted out).
Summary: UNION/RF feel too powerful to be a starting class and can easly burn out new players and make them think the other classes are just a side grade/down grade of them. By all means i don't want them to return to the SMG loadout, but still, add some incentive to the new players to switch class.
(I'm not saying everyone thinks the other classes are a downgrade/sidegrade and i'm not saying everyone thinks UNION/RF is op, but you get the point)
(7 Jan 25 at 6:08am)Pepoh Wrote: Summary: UNION/RF feel too powerful to be a starting class and can easly burn out new players and make them think the other classes are just a side grade/down grade of them. By all means i don't want them to return to the SMG loadout, but still, add some incentive to the new players to switch class.
(I'm not saying everyone thinks the other classes are a downgrade/sidegrade and i'm not saying everyone thinks UNION/RF is op, but you get the point)
I've been saying this for weeks if not months already, there's no progression if you begin at endgame level of power.
I didn't quite mean to derail this into the "UNION/RF 2 op" but y'know I was just copy pasting from a previous discussion. SWORD, believe it or not, used to be even worse before the most recent weapon handling changes - the matter of fact is, the auto shotgun specialized for close quarters still loses to sniper rifles in close quarters; because, you see: their gun one shots and the JAK-12 does not.
It's almost as if specialized classes are supposed to be "overpowered" in their specialization because they have willingly sacrificed another component or capability of their class in exchange.
Just so happens that a lot of these specialized classes still have 7/8+ weight and that allows them to throw on the FAL and still completely pester snipers and other things they should have no right engaging.
not an actual choice questions poll just discussion on SWORD balance.
"I think this highlights a disparity at the given moment in the interaction between highly specialized classes and pure generalists with high carryweight: for example, trying to unironically play SWORD before the most recent shotgun damage change was extraordinarily punishing and even ambushing the foe from behind or playing passively and letting a UNION/RF push into your shotgun did not guarantee even a trade - whereas, UNION/RF may well hold W into these situations where they have absolutely zero right in being successful and succeed nonetheless. Let's also say, they aren't successful and they die - whaddya know, they're alive again before some classes can even reload, while I get to wait ten seconds to ineffectually, impotently stand still with my automatic shotgun (because moving even while ADS'd butchers your spread) and get a quick burst to the head and back to the map screen.
It raises the question: why bother?
This is an objective focused gamemode, and being able to out muscle the other side by frequency of spawns and effectiveness at every range dulls much of the appeal of playing a close-quarters class due to the fact that unless you're equipping no armour and an inventory weapon: you cannot defend yourself past fifteen meters, you take twice as long to spawn. The benefit? You get seven carry weight, a shotgun that barely eeks out an advantage in close-quarters and a throwable to band aid the matter of fact you are harmless past the aforementioned range.
I see more and more people disenfranchised with that state of affairs opting to play anything else; or, much more noticeably due to frequency: a vastly superior whitelist with the ability to be lethal at all ranges, have two separate health pools (one of which does not kill the user when it reaches zero) and have a utility to force people (or snipers) to move or eat a grenade. And to be fair, why wouldn't you?
There's no sense in obliterating the first whitelist for being too flexible, or AR's being too prevalent; however, the matter of fact is that other classes need to be brought up to a competitive standard in comparison otherwise they'll just be put into a dustbin and forgotten wholesale. How is a CO going to convince a new player to join their division when it very well could be a complete downgrade from the very first class they were given?"
I also disagree with the fact that the default classes should be this powerful, i remeber yesterday playing as RF, i managed to sweep and take a fortified point all alone, while 3 people guarded it (specifically a GRID a SWORD and a CROSS).
I had no damage perks, just a full set of armor and my AK (with the LMG conversion which means less ADS speed).
The question rises naturally: why would i need to craft any other gun at all, when, with the AK: i don't need to craft it in the first place, i don't need to repair it, i don't need to recraft it, it's already one of the most viable ARs somebody can craft at a piss cheap price and all i need to inspire to is the highest craftable armor set which became even more affordable?
The answer would be to "try new stuff", but that would fall to the natural human need for new content and boredom, which everyone and every class has and honestly just dismisses the problem effortlessly.
While yes the main purpose of these classes is to let new players try out new stuff, but at the same time new players don't really have enough money, levels or materials to unlock them, the other way more important purpose is to guide the player in choosing a class that fits his playstyle, by making the course for meeting the requirements to join such class less of a headache, but certainly not in this shameless way, analogously, it gives older players a free ticket for what i call a sandbox class, especially now that UNION/RF doesn't take a character slot.
Almost every class lack a certain range or role that they can fulfill by crafting different guns on paper, UNION and RF (one has an AR that can turn into an LMG and the other can even turn into a DMR) do not require anything but survivability.
I will cit kratek in here: "How is a CO going to convince a new player to join their division when it very well could be a complete downgrade from the very first class they were give?" one could answer with the same old "it's the CO's fault" daisy run around crap, and ignoring the saturated and stagnant situation UNION and RF are in (and i guess partisan an legion too but that's sorted out).
Summary: UNION/RF feel too powerful to be a starting class and can easly burn out new players and make them think the other classes are just a side grade/down grade of them. By all means i don't want them to return to the SMG loadout, but still, add some incentive to the new players to switch class.
(I'm not saying everyone thinks the other classes are a downgrade/sidegrade and i'm not saying everyone thinks UNION/RF is op, but you get the point)
I've been saying this for weeks if not months already, there's no progression if you begin at endgame level of power.
It's almost as if specialized classes are supposed to be "overpowered" in their specialization because they have willingly sacrificed another component or capability of their class in exchange.
Just so happens that a lot of these specialized classes still have 7/8+ weight and that allows them to throw on the FAL and still completely pester snipers and other things they should have no right engaging.