I think that the activities should be optional so if NPU/MP have something cool set up like a prison or any fun activity they should be able to use that but normal Juries/MP should be able to cuff like before because no matter what that captive is going to be turned into something useful like resources, a free weapon, or a brainwash
the 20-minute universal cooldown will make it so they aren't spammed like before, and honestly most NPU/MP can't reasonably make a fun activity without Trusted/GM so it's better to just make the process faster. As a GM in Jury it is p fun tho but I don't see the difference between shooting someone after interrogation and throwing them into a Necrotic Pit / Crucifying them, which are the two most frequent activities for other Juries that I see. Personally, I love doing Nova Prospekt prisons and building these elaborate gulags but most regular Juries/MPs just can't do that.
if you remember, capturing players back then wasn't ever something that was "fun" unless you made it "fun." sure, the fun was one sided, however there would be certain instances where the fun would be reciprocated with not only the captor, but the captive.
This rule not only requires there to be some sort of "fun" gameplay element to be had with the captive, whether they like it or not. I believe it should be incentivised rather than forced. Forced fun isn't fun, it's a chore. I find there to be some sort of line between immersion, fun, and a forced element of both. Once it crosses that line it no longer becomes fun or immersive, simply a by-the-books requirement.
I see what this rule is trying to do, though. I found it a lot more enjoyable being interacted with as a captive rather than being interrogated and killed, which is just boring. It not only tries to eliminate the boring, stale part of being capped and instead tries to make it enjoyable for the one being brought back in shackles.
Yet the entire issue could, possibly, be solved with subdivisional tweaks rather than server guidelines. "I feel like I just can't capture anyone anymore" really sums up my point. Capturing should be fun for everyone. This rule was made to do so. Not only that, it removes the versatility and uniqueness jury/mp had. They can no longer use caps as a utility, rather have to make them the entire experience immersive. Not everything has to be immersive. I, and many others, found it a lot more fun to run around, cuff people and let them go to wander the streets as a harmless little fish (maybe not for the cuffed dude hehe).
An alternative I can provide is requiring divisions to offer incentives for player immersion. This could be promotions, recommendations, currency, whatever. It not only eliminates seemingly unnecessary rule clutter, but also delegates responsibility to the COs of their division. Not only does that leave little room for cop-outs of "he didn't follow the rules" when a captor is negligent, but it also sets a baseline standard for how a captor should operate.
Forcing fun, in essence, is never fun. It should be left up to the divisions to not only dictate proper capture proceedings and processes, but also create guidelines for how an mp/jury should operate an interrogation, immersive or not.
That sounds fantastic, and I completely agree with the fundamentals of "If people collectively agreed to have fun with this, it would be better".
However, unfortunately CvR exists in a place where that simply did not happen prior to the implementation of the rule, and captures existed ONLY for the purpose of providing utility rather than any form of fun (and in some cases exclusively for annoying certain people). If capture classes had made more effort to make the experience enjoyable prior to the implementation of the rule, then the rule wouldn't exist because the problem wouldn't exist. Instead, people complained about how boring the "/me, /roll" captures were for a few years, and nothing ever changed.
I would agree that forcing fun isn't fun, except since the implementation of the rule there's been a notable increase in how many captures are considered fun. Enlisted still aren't consistently reaching that point (partially due to accessibility), but when JURY have done MDs and made prison camps it's been pretty widely liked. That's a lot more than without the rule, so imo it's a benefit, not a downside.
(22 Feb 23 at 11:07am)[DEFN] Aithead Wrote: That sounds fantastic, and I completely agree with the fundamentals of "If people collectively agreed to have fun with this, it would be better".
However, unfortunately CvR exists in a place where that simply did not happen prior to the implementation of the rule, and captures existed ONLY for the purpose of providing utility rather than any form of fun (and in some cases exclusively for annoying certain people). If capture classes had made more effort to make the experience enjoyable prior to the implementation of the rule, then the rule wouldn't exist because the problem wouldn't exist. Instead, people complained about how boring the "/me, /roll" captures were for a few years, and nothing ever changed.
I would agree that forcing fun isn't fun, except since the implementation of the rule there's been a notable increase in how many captures are considered fun. Enlisted still aren't consistently reaching that point (partially due to accessibility), but when JURY have done MDs and made prison camps it's been pretty widely liked. That's a lot more than without the rule, so imo it's a benefit, not a downside.
What I’m trying to say with my comment is allow BOTH of these realities to co-exist by letting these NPU/MP activities still happen but also letting normal Jury/MP who don’t have access to these environments capture normally rule free
If the activity was optional instead of forced, I would still host these NPU prisons from time to time and NPU MDs probably would too whilst normal MP/Jury won’t have to worry about it, and even if people find these enlisted captures “boring” it’ll now take 20 minutes before they can be capped again now so it will never be spammed like before or overtly abused
so in essence add a rule that says NPU/MP can do activities if they want (with potential mechanical products like resources) but add nothing saying it’s forced
That is entirely counter to what I want the divisions to be.
Specialty classes should be filled with people willing to take on and find meaning in specialty responsibilities.
I mean this completely respectfully, but anyone who chooses to just capture someone and press a button and have it be over with shouldn't have been recruited to the divisions in the first place.
for me personally, I have been the one hosting most Prisons and Nova Prospekts because of GM but what I see from other Juries/MPs who are enlisted and don’t have any special position are just half assed activities which act as glorified killings (Necrotic pit, crucifixion, feeding to antlion guard) that give no mechanical outcome for the faction
I guess these glorified killings can be more fun than getting shot (apart from the crucifix you just die but with fire lmao) but it doesn’t really do anything. Maybe if you could operate the terminal without killing the captive it’ll also give a mechanical output to these situations whilst also keeping the flavor
(22 Feb 23 at 1:18pm)Bel1ve. Wrote: what if we could turn people into bikes after having a cup of coffee (poisoned) now that would make me want to become a jury (not mp cause dave sucks)
I can make it happen, join GM for infinite possibilities
But yeah trusted is nice but I only see like the NPU DvL with it, it’s just building perms right
A lot of the activities would require resources/NPCs etc so it would need GM help
But yeah I dunno I think it would be nice to be able to gear strip / take resources with the terminal without killing the captive because most activities lead in their death anyways
the 20-minute universal cooldown will make it so they aren't spammed like before, and honestly most NPU/MP can't reasonably make a fun activity without Trusted/GM so it's better to just make the process faster. As a GM in Jury it is p fun tho but I don't see the difference between shooting someone after interrogation and throwing them into a Necrotic Pit / Crucifying them, which are the two most frequent activities for other Juries that I see. Personally, I love doing Nova Prospekt prisons and building these elaborate gulags but most regular Juries/MPs just can't do that.
This rule not only requires there to be some sort of "fun" gameplay element to be had with the captive, whether they like it or not. I believe it should be incentivised rather than forced. Forced fun isn't fun, it's a chore. I find there to be some sort of line between immersion, fun, and a forced element of both. Once it crosses that line it no longer becomes fun or immersive, simply a by-the-books requirement.
I see what this rule is trying to do, though. I found it a lot more enjoyable being interacted with as a captive rather than being interrogated and killed, which is just boring. It not only tries to eliminate the boring, stale part of being capped and instead tries to make it enjoyable for the one being brought back in shackles.
Yet the entire issue could, possibly, be solved with subdivisional tweaks rather than server guidelines. "I feel like I just can't capture anyone anymore" really sums up my point. Capturing should be fun for everyone. This rule was made to do so. Not only that, it removes the versatility and uniqueness jury/mp had. They can no longer use caps as a utility, rather have to make them the entire experience immersive. Not everything has to be immersive. I, and many others, found it a lot more fun to run around, cuff people and let them go to wander the streets as a harmless little fish (maybe not for the cuffed dude hehe).
An alternative I can provide is requiring divisions to offer incentives for player immersion. This could be promotions, recommendations, currency, whatever. It not only eliminates seemingly unnecessary rule clutter, but also delegates responsibility to the COs of their division. Not only does that leave little room for cop-outs of "he didn't follow the rules" when a captor is negligent, but it also sets a baseline standard for how a captor should operate.
Forcing fun, in essence, is never fun. It should be left up to the divisions to not only dictate proper capture proceedings and processes, but also create guidelines for how an mp/jury should operate an interrogation, immersive or not.
However, unfortunately CvR exists in a place where that simply did not happen prior to the implementation of the rule, and captures existed ONLY for the purpose of providing utility rather than any form of fun (and in some cases exclusively for annoying certain people). If capture classes had made more effort to make the experience enjoyable prior to the implementation of the rule, then the rule wouldn't exist because the problem wouldn't exist. Instead, people complained about how boring the "/me, /roll" captures were for a few years, and nothing ever changed.
I would agree that forcing fun isn't fun, except since the implementation of the rule there's been a notable increase in how many captures are considered fun. Enlisted still aren't consistently reaching that point (partially due to accessibility), but when JURY have done MDs and made prison camps it's been pretty widely liked. That's a lot more than without the rule, so imo it's a benefit, not a downside.
Ancient GRID CmD, prior SU Major/GB COL.
Credit to SEVIN.
What I’m trying to say with my comment is allow BOTH of these realities to co-exist by letting these NPU/MP activities still happen but also letting normal Jury/MP who don’t have access to these environments capture normally rule free
If the activity was optional instead of forced, I would still host these NPU prisons from time to time and NPU MDs probably would too whilst normal MP/Jury won’t have to worry about it, and even if people find these enlisted captures “boring” it’ll now take 20 minutes before they can be capped again now so it will never be spammed like before or overtly abused
so in essence add a rule that says NPU/MP can do activities if they want (with potential mechanical products like resources) but add nothing saying it’s forced
Specialty classes should be filled with people willing to take on and find meaning in specialty responsibilities.
I mean this completely respectfully, but anyone who chooses to just capture someone and press a button and have it be over with shouldn't have been recruited to the divisions in the first place.
I guess these glorified killings can be more fun than getting shot (apart from the crucifix you just die but with fire lmao) but it doesn’t really do anything. Maybe if you could operate the terminal without killing the captive it’ll also give a mechanical output to these situations whilst also keeping the flavor
I can make it happen, join GM for infinite possibilities
But yeah trusted is nice but I only see like the NPU DvL with it, it’s just building perms right
A lot of the activities would require resources/NPCs etc so it would need GM help
But yeah I dunno I think it would be nice to be able to gear strip / take resources with the terminal without killing the captive because most activities lead in their death anyways