FULL RP Name(s): CWU HUM HOP+ M-A LoR/PC Mr. Dr. Teeth Sex Mpf Ballista 04 0007
Discord Username: SEVIN #3641
Steam ID: STEAM_0:0:207655216
What is your suggestion?
Remove the 500 RES TK penalty.
How would this benefit the server? The penalty does little to nothing to reduce TK, and ends up pointlessly draining RES.
The only reason it exists is to dissuade TKing, but it does a very poor job of doing this. 90% of the player base---everyone who isn't a CO, vehicle class, eng/GRID---has no direct use RES and thus pays it very little mind. They don't care about RES so losing 500 is meaningless to them. The only reason why most players care about RES at all is because they are told to by a CO. In fact, that's what this penalty relies on to have any effect at all: COs reprimanding players for TKing, which is ineffective and fatiguing for all parties.
When you do TK, the actual penalty is very subtle and hard to notice: the number at the top left corner of screen that you never pay attention to changes like it always does. The only reason why anyone even realizes it exists is because they were told about it by somebody else; new players can go weeks without ever hearing about it. The subtlety of the penalty also makes it very easy to forget, leading to people TKing in situations where it would have otherwise been completely harmless.
There is no reason to punish an entire faction for the mistake of one person.
The penalty also some events tryouts and problematic where TK is necessary. GMs have to keep track and count every TK, on top of managing everything else, then readd the RES latter. That is, if they remember to do this at all.
It's very discouraging to gather RES when all of your hard work ends up being evaporated in a few missclicks.
I didn't say that. What I mean for the part you are referencing is: It's a job they shouldn't need to do. Less unnecessary work the better. And the more stuff you yell at people to do, the less likely they are to listen and the more likely you are to sound like static. You want COs to lead their factions and facilitate teamwork, right? Let them focus on that.
The thing is they do Sentinel. They try. You can hear an OFC saying, "don't TK dumbass," in team radio all the time, but it still happens a lot. And they aren't about to demote every poor sod who gets a bit jumpy because of the same reasons we don't permaban everyone who RDMs.
You call the penalty a valid mechanic, but why? What benefits do you see that it gives exactly? Do you think the benefits outweigh the issues I mentioned?
Before I comment I’d like to state my agenda a bit
Removing the TK penalty will make combine much more prepared to kill each other in search of an S.U, so outright removing it will make combine more open to shooting each other
instead of removing it, I’d like to propose that it’s simply lowered to 300 from 500 because there’s been a lot of changes to the resource system which makes 500 seem very extraordinary currently
(24 Aug 23 at 9:59am)DeerDust Wrote: Removing the TK penalty will make combine much more prepared to kill each other in search of an S.U, so outright removing it will make combine more open to shooting each other
I really don't think we are going to see this. Like I said, 90% of players just don't care about RES, and the penalty is very forgettable---it's not the reason why Combine are holding fire. The main reasons right now are 1: randomly killing people makes you feel like an asshole, and 2: you can get warned for RDM.
The only cases where killing someone as a guess is remotely applicable is if you are suspicious but not sure, but I don't think these situations come up as much as you think. Most of the time I encounter SUs I'm ether completely oblivious until I get shot in the back, or I can almost guarantee that they are one. So even if the TK penalty was the main factor in discouraging SU guessing, it wouldn't change much,
I doubt it's going to be removed considering certain management members stance on the idea of 'allowing' TK, but I'd be in favour of it considering now that every TK, intentional or not, is no longer just a thing that holds a faction back, but can quite literally put it into the floor in terms of resources because there are now considerably less points generating objectives and other things that used to provide resource income.
This is in tandem with all alternate resource generation methods either being a total and utter gamble (factories cost resources to set up and often take full attention so tend to get sweeped by overwhelming firepower if the opposition pay any modicum of attention, or generate less than they could when the opposition can't sweep them for the sake of fairness, the Base raid gamble is in the literal title gambling a wager of large amounts of resources for what is an unlikely victory unless you're stacking the deck considerably in your advantage in which case the gamble probably won't be accepted) OR being fairly lacklustre and not too frequent (resource piles - bearing in mind that, at least to me, Mass farming resource piles is simply not enjoyable, nor is ordering people to constantly do so even if that may be effective for both the person being ordered and the one giving the order) OR being tied to time limits and class activity for relatively small amounts which can easily be countered by the opposition (Terminal sabotage - which iirc is 500 per terminal every 10 minutes if min-maxed).
This isn't me solely blaming the development setup either, player retention is negatively impacted by punishment for actions that (to most) are deemed mostly harmless and innocent (see Sevins point about most classes not being directly tied into RES, and the teamkill deduction not being so readily apparent if not already known about) situationally i.e someone runs into your crossfire, misidentification of a target and so on and so forth. Specifically speaking for the Combine side this is somewhat compounded by the nature of SU hunting, as often one cannot trust the ID system and the only way to truly know reliably is to kill, else except an untimely death.
I've waffled on like mad here. Basically;
- I don't necessarily think it should be removed because it does have some merits that remain from its initial implementation (though I wouldn't mind if it was removed)
- It was implemented in a time where the RES deduction was outweighed by income, not to where it wasn't noticeable, but to the extent where it wouldn't totally bankrupt a faction.
Therefore it should be adjusted (read: reduced) to reflect the fact that RES is no-where near as plentiful as it once was on the server and that both for wider factional play (upgrades, artillery, crafting, respawning and so on) and for specific classes it is integral to certain server functions.
Signature:
Combine Planetary Commander
"If I'm not causing someone else to have a stroke, then I am definitely having one."
CWU HUM HOP+ M-A LoR/PC Mr. Dr. Teeth Sex
Mpf Ballista 04 0007
Discord Username:
SEVIN #3641
Steam ID:
STEAM_0:0:207655216
What is your suggestion?
Remove the 500 RES TK penalty.
How would this benefit the server?
The penalty does little to nothing to reduce TK, and ends up pointlessly draining RES.
The only reason it exists is to dissuade TKing, but it does a very poor job of doing this. 90% of the player base---everyone who isn't a CO, vehicle class, eng/GRID---has no direct use RES and thus pays it very little mind. They don't care about RES so losing 500 is meaningless to them. The only reason why most players care about RES at all is because they are told to by a CO. In fact, that's what this penalty relies on to have any effect at all: COs reprimanding players for TKing, which is ineffective and fatiguing for all parties.
When you do TK, the actual penalty is very subtle and hard to notice: the number at the top left corner of screen that you never pay attention to changes like it always does. The only reason why anyone even realizes it exists is because they were told about it by somebody else; new players can go weeks without ever hearing about it. The subtlety of the penalty also makes it very easy to forget, leading to people TKing in situations where it would have otherwise been completely harmless.
There is no reason to punish an entire faction for the mistake of one person.
The penalty also some events tryouts and problematic where TK is necessary. GMs have to keep track and count every TK, on top of managing everything else, then readd the RES latter. That is, if they remember to do this at all.
It's very discouraging to gather RES when all of your hard work ends up being evaporated in a few missclicks.
The thing is they do Sentinel. They try. You can hear an OFC saying, "don't TK dumbass," in team radio all the time, but it still happens a lot. And they aren't about to demote every poor sod who gets a bit jumpy because of the same reasons we don't permaban everyone who RDMs.
You call the penalty a valid mechanic, but why? What benefits do you see that it gives exactly? Do you think the benefits outweigh the issues I mentioned?
Removing the TK penalty will make combine much more prepared to kill each other in search of an S.U, so outright removing it will make combine more open to shooting each other
instead of removing it, I’d like to propose that it’s simply lowered to 300 from 500 because there’s been a lot of changes to the resource system which makes 500 seem very extraordinary currently
I really don't think we are going to see this. Like I said, 90% of players just don't care about RES, and the penalty is very forgettable---it's not the reason why Combine are holding fire. The main reasons right now are 1: randomly killing people makes you feel like an asshole, and 2: you can get warned for RDM.
The only cases where killing someone as a guess is remotely applicable is if you are suspicious but not sure, but I don't think these situations come up as much as you think. Most of the time I encounter SUs I'm ether completely oblivious until I get shot in the back, or I can almost guarantee that they are one. So even if the TK penalty was the main factor in discouraging SU guessing, it wouldn't change much,
This is in tandem with all alternate resource generation methods either being a total and utter gamble (factories cost resources to set up and often take full attention so tend to get sweeped by overwhelming firepower if the opposition pay any modicum of attention, or generate less than they could when the opposition can't sweep them for the sake of fairness, the Base raid gamble is in the literal title gambling a wager of large amounts of resources for what is an unlikely victory unless you're stacking the deck considerably in your advantage in which case the gamble probably won't be accepted) OR being fairly lacklustre and not too frequent (resource piles - bearing in mind that, at least to me, Mass farming resource piles is simply not enjoyable, nor is ordering people to constantly do so even if that may be effective for both the person being ordered and the one giving the order) OR being tied to time limits and class activity for relatively small amounts which can easily be countered by the opposition (Terminal sabotage - which iirc is 500 per terminal every 10 minutes if min-maxed).
This isn't me solely blaming the development setup either, player retention is negatively impacted by punishment for actions that (to most) are deemed mostly harmless and innocent (see Sevins point about most classes not being directly tied into RES, and the teamkill deduction not being so readily apparent if not already known about) situationally i.e someone runs into your crossfire, misidentification of a target and so on and so forth. Specifically speaking for the Combine side this is somewhat compounded by the nature of SU hunting, as often one cannot trust the ID system and the only way to truly know reliably is to kill, else except an untimely death.
I've waffled on like mad here. Basically;
- I don't necessarily think it should be removed because it does have some merits that remain from its initial implementation (though I wouldn't mind if it was removed)
- It was implemented in a time where the RES deduction was outweighed by income, not to where it wasn't noticeable, but to the extent where it wouldn't totally bankrupt a faction.
Therefore it should be adjusted (read: reduced) to reflect the fact that RES is no-where near as plentiful as it once was on the server and that both for wider factional play (upgrades, artillery, crafting, respawning and so on) and for specific classes it is integral to certain server functions.