Hello there,
I am here to start a conversation regarding HECU and see everyone's opinion on the class overall, this includes both factions regardless of any status, from an average player to staff members, I want you tell how YOU feel about HECU. Is it overpowered? Is it underpowered? Is it balanced?


Tell me your thoughts in this forum

DISCLAIMER: please be civil regarding this topic, I don't want to cause flame wars or worse, division between the community due to this, be respectful towards each other, and if someone is wrong, correct them in a civil manner, not as a snarky comment

balanced

(5 Sep 24 at 9:20am)Redert Wrote: balanced

Would you be willing enough to elaborate on this opinion please?

HECU as it stands is "balanced", but not because of it's stats or arsenal, in fact it is "balanced" in spite of it. Ask most combine who complain that HECU is too strong, they'll most likely tell you that "You kill one, another shows up", which is not to say that HECU itself is strong, but that we excell at teamwork, and coordinate well with each other. I say this, because HECU's unique arsenal isn't very strong, and has been a contentious point for some time amongst the troops, who say that despite having a strong shotgun (shared by some other classes), the Assault Rifle is mid to weak in performance, specially in comparison to other ARs like the AK, the M4 or the SCAR.

I gotta agree with what Solomons said as he summed up the class perfectly as someone who uses the class fairly frequently.

Without combine bias.
I feel like HECU isnt in a bad spot. But how well they preform and active numbers. They feel like an overwhelming force.
But from i learned from the discussion revolving around HECU; is that they ment for mid to close range. Being able to go toe to toe with almost all jobs (with the exceptions of the obvious ones)
Their shotgun is rather powerful, being able to one shot most jobs (unless equiped with decent armor). Like the riot shotgun without the shield

The rifle itself got buffed and has been decent.
I cant really say much about since i haven't used it yet.
But the draw back of HECU is the limited CW.
In which- its either spent on armor or an unused gun.

In the case of balance, comparing it to other jobs. its sits well, like how pyro using the dragon's fury. Takes enough precision and timing to get kills without getting killed yourself. but at the same time- tryharding isnt that difficult of a task to preform with the job.

(5 Sep 24 at 9:30am)[VN] Ragnarok Wrote: HECU as it stands is "balanced", but not because of it's stats or arsenal, in fact it is "balanced" in spite of it. Ask most combine who complain that HECU is too strong, they'll most likely tell you that "You kill one, another shows up", which is not to say that HECU itself is strong, but that we excell at teamwork, and coordinate well with each other. I say this, because HECU's unique arsenal isn't very strong, and has been a contentious point for some time amongst the troops, who say that despite having a strong shotgun (shared by some other classes), the Assault Rifle is mid to weak in performance, specially in comparison to other ARs like the AK, the M4 or the SCAR.

This
And the other thing is, this can be applied to every class in the game if there was a decent amount in a squad
5 Rangers: Unless they have stormtrooper aim its hell
5 Swords: Even with stormtrooper aim its hell
5 Shields: You're lucky if you kill one
5 EOWRs: *1000 yard stare*
5 MACEs: Its like playing the horrified version of whack-a-mole but the moles also whack you to death
5 HELIXes: Can create a Ring of Life that no bullets in whatever amount can penetrate
I can go on and on but I think I made my point. All these classes have their drawbracks but they are hell to go against if theres a squad of them
Same goes for HECU

HECU is one of the classes I've always considered stat/loadout wise "annoying". (I don't find the people IN IT annoying, simply the loadout as it gives them some leeway to play range and close in a fight).
And while it is a pretty annoying class to fight I've never seen it as wholly unfair, it's just annoying to fight in the same vein as MACE / Shield (classes in general) / Snipers / Recon.
These classes (and H.E.C.U.) counter my style of play which is more to huck it out on my own to get flanks in, as they dominate 1v1's (in certain conditions.)
I find this annoying but I understand that's just down to how these classes work and the conditions of how I play interacts with them.

And sure, HECU will sometimes light up the kill-feed because of the shotgun getting used at the right time but I think that's just due to how HECU plays more-so than it being unique to the class, any class that can sustain the ammunition for kills or has the burst damage like that of a shotgun can pull stunts like that off.
But I think what most people find annoying is most likely the 1v1 aspects I mentioned earlier, there isn't much you can do to fight against a shotgun as "most" classes, and at that all you can do is be out of situations where a HECU will fight you in a "fair" 1v1.
Not that it's impossible that a HECU will just crashout and kill you in particular in your squad of 5 actively gunning him down but yeah that's just gmod combat for you.

tl;dr
HECU just full of insane crashouts and yeah the class can be pretty annoying but i've found it not to be overbearing, same as most other classes.

Note:
To be clear I was formerly a Major (and CO) for H.E.C.U. so I won't act like I have never been favorable to the class, however that was over... 4 years ago now.
At that I've only recently picked up CvR again so I'm not the most familiar with it's gameplay right now, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
I also strayed from bringing this point in due to it being somewhat invalid to the conversation, but a condition in which I think HECU is TRULY unfair is when being given a medic pocket, however this in my opinion affects any division given a pocket medic/helix when playing, I think it truly dumbs down strategy and worsens game-play (especially when you consider perks.)

Seems I'm going to take up the more contrarian position. I personally find HECU Annoying to fight as they are one of the great exceptions. They are the only division to have two primaries, when all others only get their singular main gun and maybe something extra like Recon's Crossbow.
Their Carry weight, while now allowing for the M4 or SCAR, is still plenty enough to get a respectable amount of armor, which they can easily afford as they come stock with both an AR for mid range team fights, and a shotgun to dominate close quarters. Their health is enough that, as a Ranger, they can tank 3 body shots on the approach, all while pestering you with their RAM-7 to force you to take cover lest the damage build up. Further more, they have frags to flush you out of cover.
Everything about HECU's kit is balanced on their own, enhanced mobility and health, decent CW, 870, RAM, Frags, but when every last bit of it is shoved into a single person, it feels as though you're always playing on the back foot.

I will also add on the end of this that I would almost certainly be less annoyed with HECU if it wasn't for the fact that Combine has nothing similar. We have Reapers, sure, but they have deployment rules, limited tryouts, and from what I understand it isn't easy to join them.

(6 Sep 24 at 11:16am)Assassin Wrote: I will also add on the end of this that I would almost certainly be less annoyed with HECU if it wasn't for the fact that Combine has nothing similar. We have Reapers, sure, but they have deployment rules, limited tryouts, and from what I understand it isn't easy to join them.

For the uninitiated, there was indeed a point in time where H.E.C.U and EOWR were in parity with one another; however, this has long not been the case. I obviously can't speak with certainty as I'm not part of EOWR's CO's, but the deployment rules were a requirement - in part exchange for their great benefits, likewise I presume with their limitation on tryouts and difficulty of joining. The divergence between H.E.C.U and EOWR beginning at the end of their parity is that deployment rules were acknowledged as a considerable obstacle to actually playing the game, and very concisely FH avoided any trades that'd require being bound by deployment rules. It was some time ago now, although part of me seems to remember them also having a shotgun of their own when they were still mirrored. 

Whatever the case, the matter of REAPER's restrictions and the efficacy of said restrictions is a long and storied one. EOWR has had deployment rules on and off many, many times and if I recall correctly, were required to have deployment rules when parity came crashing down, but weren't imposed upon specifically - it was left up to, I presume, their CO's. Their rather prodigious health pool came shortly thereafter in what was likely a series of bargains with the intent of solidifying class character. There is much to say nowadays about these restrictions and how they are actually implemented, and how it plays out in practicality; to be frank, having an almost completely negligible impact outside of hyperspecific circumstances. However, thanks to the incredible power of glasnost: REAPER's can't deploy if there's less than four rebels, and if the resistance is woefully outnumbered in which case they are still allowed to deploy but only to defend owned objectives or FOBs. The other stipulations are caveats, and strict enforcement on squadplay - except for the the sixth bullet point, which explicitly states all deployment rules barring the first one mentioned are waived as long as they're squaded up with a DvL+.

If there's more than a single EOWR, they're required to move in herds of 700HP murder machines rampaging across the battlefield.

Hardly seems a restriction, dare I say.

Infact, I think I would find you considerably more annoyed if HECU had, in effect, an entire extra rebel fighter strapped to their health pool, were strictly required to play together and, of course, had unsanctioned deployments in all but name.
(Of course, there is the footnote stating that regardless of the rules deploying is at their discretion and should keep in mind fairness, although, it's more than a difficult decision to not play for the sake of fairness especially when it's the player's interest to actually play the damn game.)

I'll also provide the very statistics provided from both side's respective field manuals, for the sake of comparison.

HECU (ENLISTED)
RAM-7, M680, 2 GRENADES

400HP, 7CW, 310HU.

EOWR (ENLISTED)
AR2

700HP, 5CW, 290HU.

Killing HECU, another sprouts out of the ground to curse you - EOWR can, and have moved in squads with a total health equal or exceeding that of a handpicked pushback class and can do so in much fewer number than it would take HECU to reproduce in any comparable quantity.
Together paired with even one HELIX? Victory becomes a distant thought by virtue of there being few ways of dismantling such a monumental healthpool, especially spread out across several targets all of which could be healed independently especially if all of said targets can act against a smaller force, quite genuinely being a wandering wrecking ball.

That all being said, this thread is about the communities feelings on H.E.C.U - whether or not they're too strong, too weak or anything in between; I figured, by offering some perspective into what the resistance has to often stare down on the battlefield it may offer or deepen understanding on the topic. That being said, I feel HECU stands on pretty solid ground - I understand how shotguns can be oppressive, and how a constant stream of solid frontline shocktroops can likewise be oppressive, nonetheless I feel it remains fair for both sides.

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(6 Sep 24 at 11:16am)Assassin Wrote: They are the only division to have two primaries, when all others only get their singular main gun and maybe something extra like Recon's Crossbow.

Preferred to make this an edit of my previous post, and just tag it on at the end - as it's already stupidly long, but there was a discussion long ago about downsizing HECU's rifle and shotgun into something more akin to what is pictured above. I recall it being unfeasible due to technological limitations. Although I wouldn't say an underslung 40mm with buckshot would have anywhere the same potency as the M680 currently does, even with the versatility of being able to shoot actual grenades in addition to whatever ammo options it would have available.

ADDENDUM: It'd also be a nightmare, trying to push a marine and not knowing if he was ADS'ing with his rifle or the 157 caliber underslung shotgun.. or grenade about to embed itself in your face.