I do agree with reducing the ban because of the circumstances, but after being explicitly told and not responding in any way to what i was saying, it really doesnt help. The fact that he has gone out to DM two staff members and create this fourm post has lead me to beleive that he does care. The ban will be reduced, but most likely not removed.
Also, for the missing rule of being saved, feel free to create a fourm post about it or talk to SU or MACE CO's. They know more about the subject.
(29 May 22 at 5:38pm)bee21 Wrote: I do agree with reducing the ban because of the circumstances, but after being explicitly told and not responding in any way to what i was saying, it really doesnt help. The fact that he has gone out to DM two staff members and create this fourm post has lead me to beleive that he does care. The ban will be reduced, but most likely not removed.
Also, for the missing rule of being saved, feel free to create a fourm post about it or talk to SU or MACE CO's. They know more about the subject.
Banning someone for 6 weeks over an admittedly missing rule is ridiculous. I shouldn't have to elaborate, especially when the precedent with Dionsyus is already in place.
The current rule in place is that MRDM is a 6 week ban. I came to enforce this because he had previously entered combine base and RDM'd once, but at the time of the ban i was missing context.
Its stretching it and 6 weeks is a bit extreme especially for CvR, and (no offense of course) but Bee's counter argument was a bit weak to me which explained to me at least that the duration was a bit excessive.
(29 May 22 at 5:47pm)bee21 Wrote: The current rule in place is that MRDM is a 6 week ban. I came to enforce this because he had previously entered combine base and RDM'd once, but at the time of the ban i was missing context.
with all respect, isnt being captured and brought to their base "out of my control"
At the time of the ban the context i had was:
A rebel was in combine base and killed someone. I then brought them to a sit and told them not to enter combine base apart from the situations mentioned, and then another ticket comes in saying that the same person killed 3 people.
I did not have the context, nor did A1C1 communicate to me that he was saved by an SU (But it was quite fast and i do not think they had the time to say that)
It was out of your control, and the punishment should have not been that severe. It was a severe oversight on my part.
+1/ban should be reduced
As the second SU who was in base (wasn't the one to free him ). Here is my part of the story: The first time he entered the base with the crowbar in his hands and said something (forgot what he said), he essentially wanted to make peace with the combine. After that happened I called bee and he Phys gun him out of the base and told him not to go inside anymore. After less than 5 minutes I see him in base doing the same thing, but this time he got captured by an NPU I think it was (Adicm99) and he got placed somewhere (i don't think it was NPU Cells) after a couple of seconds he got rescued by a fellow SU, the SU killed the NPU and proceeded to uncuff him, then A1C1 tried to make his way out of the base but killed 4 people (or 3 ) on his way out. This is the story of this incident. It's not bee's fault at all for giving him 6 weeks, he just enforced the rule and didn't know the whole context. I don't think he should get unbanned completely (because he already got warned 1 time and still came back), but a reduced ban should be the way because he is a new player.
~SU PFC Penguin | T4 Penguin
With past precedent he should be unbanned. A new player, misled by circumstances. Same thing happened with Dionsyus, but he was fully unbanned. For that reason I am advocating for a FULL unban.
Unless Bee writes the MOTD, he did the right thing in the moment. I wouldn't expect junior staff to do much else. Mass RDM has no strict limit and there isn't a rule for rescuing captives, I feel like the other moderators or even admins would do the same but with all context included, A1C1 should get the unban. Not for a second am I criticizing Bee. Bad situation all around.
I am for a unban in this situation but I'd suggest in the future to avoid doing any killing in enemy bases just to be safe. Not everyone's gonna know you were a capture that got freed and will assume the worst.
Before I deliver my verdict I would like to clear up a few misconceptions I have seen thrown around, as well as a few unspoken misconceptions.
Firstly, the MOTD does not exist to guide the player. It is a weapon utilized by the Personnel Department to remove people from the server who negatively effect the experience of others. It would be even more of a failure than it currently is if it's intended purpose was the guidance of players~ far too many situations are left completely unmentioned or poorly clarified, as this is not its intended purpose. What it does is provide leverage to levy punishment against bad actors amongst the community.
In the real world, finding loopholes or laws which lack clarity can sometimes stall out consequences to your actions. The Personnel Department prides itself on its loopholes which make perfect nets for a special rare fish I call "getting banned for longer than he already would have."
Secondly I would like to clarify the definition of Mass RDM. For someone to commit Mass RDM they must commit three or more acts of RDM within the same situation. All accounts state that our subject killed at least three combine within their borders outside of an Admin supervised Base Raid situation, thus falling under RDM. We can then easily conclude that our subject has in fact committed MRDM.
However!
As I stated before, the MOTD exists to arm staff against "bad actors" in our community. The subject we are dealing with is a very new player, and clearly has no real understanding of the rules and cultural norms of the server. It is also worth noting that at no point has anyone asserted our subject purposely or maliciously breaking any rules. If we were to place ourselves in his shoes, it would make perfect sense to try and defend ourselves while making a daring escape from the enemy's base.
Personally I believe it incredibly irresponsible of the SU who freed you. The best way to have ensured smooth rescue would have been delivered by the business end of his weapon rather than trying to let you run. Poor performance.
Due to these circumstances I believe it just to nullify your ban and remove any warns which may have been administered. Take this chance to familiarize yourself with the MOTD and take care to not find yourself in this situation again, or I will not be so generous.
Also, for the missing rule of being saved, feel free to create a fourm post about it or talk to SU or MACE CO's. They know more about the subject.
Banning someone for 6 weeks over an admittedly missing rule is ridiculous. I shouldn't have to elaborate, especially when the precedent with Dionsyus is already in place.
Its stretching it and 6 weeks is a bit extreme especially for CvR, and (no offense of course) but Bee's counter argument was a bit weak to me which explained to me at least that the duration was a bit excessive.
with all respect, isnt being captured and brought to their base "out of my control"
A rebel was in combine base and killed someone. I then brought them to a sit and told them not to enter combine base apart from the situations mentioned, and then another ticket comes in saying that the same person killed 3 people.
I did not have the context, nor did A1C1 communicate to me that he was saved by an SU (But it was quite fast and i do not think they had the time to say that)
It was out of your control, and the punishment should have not been that severe. It was a severe oversight on my part.
As the second SU who was in base (wasn't the one to free him ). Here is my part of the story: The first time he entered the base with the crowbar in his hands and said something (forgot what he said), he essentially wanted to make peace with the combine. After that happened I called bee and he Phys gun him out of the base and told him not to go inside anymore. After less than 5 minutes I see him in base doing the same thing, but this time he got captured by an NPU I think it was (Adicm99) and he got placed somewhere (i don't think it was NPU Cells) after a couple of seconds he got rescued by a fellow SU, the SU killed the NPU and proceeded to uncuff him, then A1C1 tried to make his way out of the base but killed 4 people (or 3 ) on his way out. This is the story of this incident. It's not bee's fault at all for giving him 6 weeks, he just enforced the rule and didn't know the whole context. I don't think he should get unbanned completely (because he already got warned 1 time and still came back), but a reduced ban should be the way because he is a new player.
~SU PFC Penguin | T4 Penguin
With past precedent he should be unbanned. A new player, misled by circumstances. Same thing happened with Dionsyus, but he was fully unbanned. For that reason I am advocating for a FULL unban.
Unless Bee writes the MOTD, he did the right thing in the moment. I wouldn't expect junior staff to do much else. Mass RDM has no strict limit and there isn't a rule for rescuing captives, I feel like the other moderators or even admins would do the same but with all context included, A1C1 should get the unban. Not for a second am I criticizing Bee. Bad situation all around.
I am for a unban in this situation but I'd suggest in the future to avoid doing any killing in enemy bases just to be safe. Not everyone's gonna know you were a capture that got freed and will assume the worst.
Firstly, the MOTD does not exist to guide the player. It is a weapon utilized by the Personnel Department to remove people from the server who negatively effect the experience of others. It would be even more of a failure than it currently is if it's intended purpose was the guidance of players~ far too many situations are left completely unmentioned or poorly clarified, as this is not its intended purpose. What it does is provide leverage to levy punishment against bad actors amongst the community.
In the real world, finding loopholes or laws which lack clarity can sometimes stall out consequences to your actions. The Personnel Department prides itself on its loopholes which make perfect nets for a special rare fish I call "getting banned for longer than he already would have."
Secondly I would like to clarify the definition of Mass RDM. For someone to commit Mass RDM they must commit three or more acts of RDM within the same situation. All accounts state that our subject killed at least three combine within their borders outside of an Admin supervised Base Raid situation, thus falling under RDM. We can then easily conclude that our subject has in fact committed MRDM.
However!
As I stated before, the MOTD exists to arm staff against "bad actors" in our community. The subject we are dealing with is a very new player, and clearly has no real understanding of the rules and cultural norms of the server. It is also worth noting that at no point has anyone asserted our subject purposely or maliciously breaking any rules. If we were to place ourselves in his shoes, it would make perfect sense to try and defend ourselves while making a daring escape from the enemy's base.
Personally I believe it incredibly irresponsible of the SU who freed you. The best way to have ensured smooth rescue would have been delivered by the business end of his weapon rather than trying to let you run. Poor performance.
Due to these circumstances I believe it just to nullify your ban and remove any warns which may have been administered. Take this chance to familiarize yourself with the MOTD and take care to not find yourself in this situation again, or I will not be so generous.
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